As Amb. Kindl says in the interview he gave tovima.com: “It is clear that Europe is confronted with difficult challenges and that political leadership is needed to make the right government decisions. For the voter, the important choices will have to be made on voting day and my hope is that as many people as possible act responsibly and exercise their right to participate in that democratic process. I hope that people are aware of the threats to democracy and make an informed choice.”
He has only been in Athens for a few months, but he has known Greece for a long time and is one of the few foreign diplomats who speak Greek. Having served in Israel and in Lebanon, where his previous post was, he is following developments in the Middle East closely, and clearly states that he is concerned. “I see with great concern that the atrocious attack of Hamas and the Israeli military reaction have led to a steep and worrying rise in anti-Semitism around the world and a humanitarian disaster among the inhabitants of the Gaza strip,” Kindl says.
He sends his own message about Ukraine: “We must do everything we can to support Ukraine in countering the Russian attack, for as long as it takes.”
Finally, he said it is an honor that Germany will be the official guest country at the Thessaloniki Fair. He recalls that “during the crisis, no German company left Greece or laid off employees. In total, German companies employ around 24,000 people here, and German direct investments in Greece amount to around 6.8 billion euros. However, I think that there is still considerable potential in the areas of renewable energies, logistics and transport, for example.” He also sees potential to further develop economic ties between Greece and Germany.
Germany will be the honored country at the Thessaloniki International Fair. What does this mean and where are economic relations between Greece and Germany today? What is their strongest point and what are the prospects for further development?
It is a great honor for us to be the official guest country of the Thessaloniki International Fair 2024. We want to show that Germany is an attractive, cosmopolitan, and innovative country that is attractive for business. To this end, we will be offering various thematic days on topics such as logistics, the healthcare industry, renewable energies, research and education, digitalization and tourism. Thanks to a very special exhibition concept in the German pavilion, we will offer space for personal encounters, specialist symposia and an accompanying cultural program.
Economic development in Greece is certainly more dynamic than is often perceived in Germany. Bilateral economic relations are good. I would like to emphasize that during the crisis no German company left Greece or laid off employees. In total, German companies employ around 24,000 people here, and German direct investments in Greece amount to around 6.8 billion euros. However, I think that there is still considerable potential in the areas of renewable energies, logistics and transport, for example.
Ursula von der Leyen is seeking another term in the European Commission. She has Greece’s support; does she also have Germany’s?
Ursula von der Leyen is the lead candidate of the European People’s Party for European Commission President, and also has the full support of the CDU, the German political party. At the appropriate time, taking into account the result of the elections, the European Council will propose a candidate for President of the Commission to the Parliament.
The far right seems to be gaining ground in Germany, as well. Are you concerned?
I will definitely be concerned if a growing number of people leave the space of rational debate and resort to extremist or illegal actions. It is irresponsible to toy with undemocratic or racist ideas. Especially within the European Union, we need to remind ourselves of the merits of the freedom, peace, and welfare we all enjoying thanks to our solidarity and unity. For this to continue, it is important that democratic forces gain ground.
Do you think that this trend (the strengthening of the far right) will also be reflected in the results of the European elections?
I do not want to speculate on the results of elections that will take place in three months. It is clear that Europe is confronted with difficult challenges and that political leadership is needed to make the right government decisions. For the voters, the important choice will have to be made on voting day and my hope is that as many people as possible act responsibly and exercise their right to participate in that democratic process. I hope that people are aware of the threats to democracy and make an informed choice.
Greece and Germany have also cooperated on the refugee-immigration issue, but Greek public opinion seems to remain skeptical. Has Germany done what it could in this area or not?
The question of how to deal with increasing refugee and migration flows is one of those issues that will continue to require very close cooperation within the European Union. It is evident that unilateral or bilateral approaches will not be sufficient to respond to this global challenge. What we need—and I think we share this view with our Greek partners—are sustainable European solutions. Germany, therefore, very much welcomes the political agreement on the New Pact on Migration and Asylum that was reached in December. It will now be crucial to ensure a swift conclusion of the reform process in Brussels. At the same time, Greece and Germany are of course continuing their close dialog on migration-related aspects. Only a few days ago, our State Secretary of the Federal Ministry of the Interior visited Athens and Alexandroupoli in order to meet with the Greek Minister for Migration and Asylum and to explore additional fields of bilateral cooperation—for example, with regard to the high number of secondary movements from Greece to Germany, which remain high. At the end of the day the question we all have to ask ourselves will be: has everyone done what he or she could, or not?
How do you assess the developments in Ukraine and how concerned are you about Russia’s rhetoric toward Germany, as well?
The Russian attack on Ukraine has fundamentally changed security and defense policy, not only in Germany but also in Europe. How we respond to the Russian threat against Ukraine and Europe will have an impact on future generations, and in Greece, too. We must do everything we can to support Ukraine in countering the Russian attack, for as long as it takes.
This war was started by Russia and has now been ongoing for over 700 days. It has cost tens of thousands of innocent lives and will shape the destinies of entire generations. Mr. Putin could end this war overnight by unconditionally withdrawing his troops from the occupied territories.
Instead, Moscow continues to attack Ukraine and Europe, and it continues to try to divide and destabilize our free society with cyber-attacks, targeted disinformation campaigns and propaganda in the social media. It is our free, self-determined and democratic way of life that Putin fears. He is afraid of the free, democratic world endangering his power.
How do you see the role of Greece in relation to the war in Ukraine?
Greece has a close relationship with Ukraine, not only due to its history and geographical proximity, but also because of its faith and the Greek minority in Ukraine.
The Greek government has taken a very supportive stance toward Ukraine, both politically and materially. The recent visit by PM Mitsotakis to Odessa was an important political signal and it will also lead to more material support for Ukraine, which is needed. For the Ukrainians, everything is at stake—their very existence, their freedom and security. And we Europeans have understood that our democratic values and free and self-determined future is also at stake.
The war in Gaza. Are you worried and why?
The Israelis and the Palestinians are our European neighbors. I had been posted to Israel and I know the Palestinian territories well; our youngest daughter was born in Jerusalem. So, obviously, I am following the conflict, and its recent escalation as a consequence of the shocking attack Hamas terrorists launched on innocent Israeli citizens, with strong emotions.
I see with great concern that the atrocious attack by Hamas and the Israeli military reaction have led to a steep and worrying rise in anti-Semitism around the world and to a humanitarian disaster among the inhabitants of the Gaza strip. I wish and hope that a sustainable way out for both Israelis and Palestinians will emerge from this confrontation on the basis of a two-state solution. Also, calm needs to return to the border between Israel and Lebanon.
Germany, like Greece, is participating with a frigate in the EUNAVFOR Operation ASPIDES in the Red Sea. Why was a European initiative necessary? How dangerous is this operation and what is the stake?
Operation ASPIDES is a robust defensive deployment to protect trade routes. It is surely one of the more challenging naval operations undertaken by the European Union. This operation is of enormous relevance for Europe, as it contributes to the protection of freedom of navigation and maritime security in the southern Red Sea. It has also a stabilizing impact on our Mediterranean neighborhood.
Since February 23, 2024, the frigate HESSEN and German staff personnel at EU HQ Larissa have been participating in the EU-led Operation ASPIDES. With the frigates YDRA and HESSEN, Greece and Germany are both making a meaningful contribution to protecting ships in the area of operations from missile and drone strikes, as well as from hijacking attempts using helicopters or boats.
Germany played an active role in reducing tensions between Greece and Türkiye during the crisis of 2020. How do you now see relations between Greece and Turkey, and what are the prospects for the future?
Looking at the relations between Greece and Turkey, we see two important partners in NATO, and we see two countries, regional maritime powers, that share a long and multifaceted history defined by their location in the Eastern Mediterranean. One of them is a trusted fellow EU-member state, the other enjoys an active and special relationship with the EU.
So, naturally, it is a core German interest that Greece and Turkey should find a way to effectively reduce tensions. Germany, therefore, very much welcomed the 5th GRC-TUR High Level Cooperation Council in Athens last December, as well as the Athens Declaration signed at the conclusion of that meeting. The declaration contains an important road map for both countries to pursue a process of rapprochement and collaboration in defined areas of common interest. In an atmosphere of trust generated by Greece’s swift and generous help in the immediate aftermath of the catastrophic earthquake in Turkey, both sides realized that further confidence-building measures are important for the region—for their own security and that of others. Germany is aware that there are fundamental differences in very important matters that need to be dealt with. However, we and our other EU partners trust that the regular talks between Turkey and Greece agreed upon in December, as well as the establishment of certain lines of communication between the authorities in both countries, will lead to a sustainable and reliable working relationship.
What are Türkiye-Germany relations like at the moment and what role do Turkish migrants play in Germany?
In one word: complex. This year, we will be looking back at 100 years of diplomatic relations between Germany and Turkey. Close economic ties; a favorite holiday destination, and an important NATO partner. At the same time there are a number of important matters, whether it be the Turkish military operations in Syria or Iraq, Turkey’s role in the military conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, human rights, Cyprus—to name a few areas where disagreement remains. President Erdogan’s anti-Israel and anti-Semitic stance with regard to the conflict in Gaza is another example.
Turkish migrants have been part of Germany’s social fabric since the first guest workers arrived from Turkey in Germany in the Sixties. Displaying an admirable level of entrepreneurship, they have contributed to the wealth we all enjoy. Their children and grandchildren are industrial workers, doctors, police officers, politicians of all parties and in all levels of government, including cabinet ministers.
